the no-fi "interview"
with
Mark Kozelek
of Red House Painters and Sun Kil Moon
conducted by Mary Bond, 2003


I swear I have never taken so long to get an interview up and in print as I have with this one. I wanted to really do it justice. And I was nervous. And excited. And overwhelmed. And though this interview did take place earlier this year, I decided putting it out just before the release of his new album would actually be a better thing anyway. His new album obviously comes out in November of this year of 2003, which is said to be very reminiscent of his “Ocean Beach” CD. I have spoken with him many times since the interview and rest assured, there will be a big tour coming as well. Unlike the pictures I am posting, he has shaved off his long hair and is sporting the super short look again currently. Much like how it was back after he completed his role in Cameron Crowe’s hit movie “Almost Famous”, which he shot in the summer of 2000 in Southern California. And even after a brief spot in “Vanilla Sky” and a special guest appearance on one of VH1’s music specials, he remains a San Francisco resident, as he has for the past 15 years or so. Originally from Ohio, he has stayed an incredibly beautiful person, despite all of the success that has thankfully not spoiled him at all. Here is my story of my life with the Red House Painters, as well as my Q and A session with Mark from earlier this year…

Every so often a band comes along that defines the human experience and feelings of a generation- bands like The Beatles, Pink Floyd, etc. Everything they put out can do no wrong and it’s been a long time since a band of this caliber has shown in itself. But I swear I knew, 11 years ago, in a tiny San Francisco club called The Elbo Room when I first saw a band called The Red House Painters. I was overcome by words, by basic and complex human emotions, by feelings I tried so fiercely to hide. I have yet to experience being blown away by any such band ever again as I did on that evening that I saw a yet-to-be signed Red House Painters. This band immediately instated feelings I have yet to forget- of being completely encompassed by an overwhelmingly genius and talent. I sat with my young mind wide open and impressionable, unexpectedly vulnerable to any trip the singer would send me on. It was nothing like I had felt before or quite honestly, ever since. How can I express the emotions conveyed without making them seem trite or over exaggerated? If you are a RHP fan, maybe you can imagine such a celestial experience taking place- and if you are unfamiliar the brilliance of RHP- go out and educate yourself with their back catalog- it’s like listening to the journal of your life, but put into the words you could never come up with yourself because you were too damaged or jaded or suppressed to express such a reality. I only wish I could envelope you in the experience as I felt it, but I can’t- you’d have to have been there. After the surreal, paralyzing experience- I jumped out of my seat after the show, managed to somehow close my permanently dropped jaw, and approached him. I was filled so full of awe and sensation, I had no idea what I would say to, I just had to meet this incredible individual. Mark was talking to a man in a business suit (later, I found out is was actually the 4AD representative who would shortly sign them to their label) and just stood there. He was quick to politely include me, and all I could mutter to him were the words “that…was…soooo…intense. Thank you.” And then I hugged him and he very genuinely thanked me for being there and then I scurried away. They had some Demos around at the time, and I got a copy from my roommate at the time and was quickly obsessed with the music. I have since bought every release and side project I could get my hands on involving Mark Kozelek.

Ironically 10 years after my first encounter with him, I discovered a friend of mine in San Francisco (Roger Anderson, singer and writer for the talented San Fran space-rock band Vaportrail) had become a great friend of Mark’s. Thusly, upon a visit to SF in early 2000 to see one of my new favorite bands at the time, Death Cab For Cutie, I suggested that Roger come to check this new band from Seattle out with me and my dear old friend Wendy Guthrie. He just happened to bring along Mark. I think I was far too nervous and excited at the time to really get into a deep conversation with him. But after dragging my friends to check out Death Cab For Cutie, Wendy, Roger, Mark and I all decided to go look at an antique shop or two and then get dinner at one of my all time favorite restaurants in the upper Haight of San Fran- Kan Zaman. I was still so shy to talk to him very much, as his music had meant so very much to me and my life over the years. I expected him to be quite melancholy and quiet, but to my surprise, he was extremely kind, down-to-earth and quite cheerful. He was great at conversation and asking my friend and I about our lives and goals and dreams. He even had a very refreshing, witty sense of humor. After dinner, we went back to Wendy’s place in the Western Addition and all drank Chai tea and watched the River Phoenix movie “Dogfight”. He was such a pleasure to be in company with, I was more than happy to have finally spent some real time with him. It was a couple of years later, that I decided I must interview him. I met up with him earlier this year in San Fran at his home for what was to be my longest interview ever- a whole 3 hours. And he was just so welcoming and genuine and easy to talk to, I ended up getting very personal with him, it was like talking to one of your very best friends. I finally got to meet his lovely cat, Pink, as well and really get to know him in his own element. Sweetly enough, he met up later with some friends and I for a very interesting “haunted walk” of ironically the Grace Cathedral Park area (his second CD contains a song called “Grace Cathedral Park”) and then to tea at The Café Royale. And the next day, we met up again for a special Birthday luncheon for our friend Roger. And this summer, he came to Los Angeles for a brief visit while he taped the VH1 segment. Never have I had the pleasure to met one of my idols and spend so much real time with and never be disappointed for a moment as Mark. If you are ever as lucky as me to meat Mark, I can guarantee he will just fill you with the same down-to-earth, sensual, genuine qualities that are so very apparent in his music. He truly comes across as refreshingly real and totally unaware of his own brilliance.

And finally, on to it….his deep voice is just as hypnotic and soothing as you may have imagined…and even more so…

MB: Me, Mary Bond
MK: Mark Kozelek

The first thing I just had to ask, is a question I and my friends had always wondered, why the name The Red House Painters?? Was it people who painted houses red? Was it angry people who painted houses? And he told me the following story:

MK: “It was a friend of mine who was in a painting crew in Tennessee called The International League Of Revolutionary House Painters and where the name came to me was when I was probably 18 years old, and I was in New Orleans with him and me and a bunch of people were staying in the same hotel room and I just remember I had been sleeping on the floor for a couple of days and finally a couple of guys had left and I was sleeping on one of the beds, and I heard him talking to somebody about how they were going to shorten the name of the painting crew to Red House Painters…

MB: “Oh my Gosh”

MK: “And it just stuck in my head and then I never even put the band together until years later, but that name just stuck in my head. So, that’s where it comes from.”

MB: “Did they actually ever name their painting crew The Red House Painters?”

MK: “No, it was The International League Of Revolutionary House Painters” (he laughs), but they never did call it The Red House Painters. Yeah…”

MB: “Have you ever told anybody that before?”

MK: “Well, I just told you. But of course, millions and millions of times…”

MB: “See, I’m sorry… I did a little research, but I don’t like to read a lot of interviews or reviews that other people do…”

MK: “Sure!”

MB: …”because I don’t want it to influence my own opinion…”

MK: “Well, and that’s good because that’s what you do, you know what I mean? When you’re doing something and that’s kind of THE thing that you do…”

MB: “Yeah, it’s just that the only problem is that I don’t ever…I hate to think that I’m asking the same questions that you’ve been asked a million times…so that’s one thing that bothers me about not doing a whole lot of research…”

MK: “Really?”

MB: “…as I don’t really want to be, you know…redundant…”

MK: “Well, asking somebody how they got the name of their band or where it came from (is pretty normal)…but you asked it in an original way I think…”

MB: (Laugh) I was just asking out of my own curiosity”

MK: “Yeah, yeah.” (Laughs)

And then in his adorably personable, inquisitive way, he begins to ask me about how I like reviewing/interviewing bands and who I liked and why or why not…being sweetly interested in who I am and what I do…and the L.A. areas he likes…

MB: “Do you like L.A.?” (and anyone who knows me, knows that my personal answer would be in the negative…)

MK: “Uh…you know it’s just…not really…”

MB: (I laugh)

MK: “It’s uh, you know…I don’t really like it. (We laugh) But…”

MB: “I hate it.”

MK: “Yeah, I wouldn’t say that I hate it, but I think that it’s definitely not my taste and I guess I just sort of feel like…it’s in the circles of people that I’ve known down there, it’s like everybody I know has a couple of houses and a couple of cars and nineteen year old girls who have three cars and a house in France. And then, up here (S.F.)…everybody is four people living in a flat and struggling and then down there (L.A.) it seems like everybody I know is…it’s like there is so much money and I don’t live that way. So when I’m down there, I feel like…a certain sort of…maybe a little bit of an inferiority complex or it’s like I don’t really belong and…”

MB: “I feel like that…when I go to Beverly Hills…”

MK: “I don’t feel like I really fit in that well and I always kind of feel out of place. Here, (San Fran.) it’s more my pace, I don’t…I’ve never driven, so it’s the perfect city for me, all the things I need to do and all the people I know are in my neighborhood…there (L.A.) I was spending easily fifty dollars on a cab ride to go somewhere and fifty dollars back…”

MB: “Uuh, you can’t take cabs in L.A.! Yeah!" (we laugh)

MK: “Yeah, so for me, this is just more…I’m more relaxed, I feel like…like in San Francisco, amongst the people that I know, I’m one of the guys who sort of has it together a little bit. But down there, I feel sort of like I don’t really have it together, everybody around me has so much success and they’re just moving up this latter and…do you know what I mean?”

MB: “I think I know what you mean far more than YOU know… (I laugh and he agrees) I think what you are saying, I can relate to even more than you can…so, yeah…it’s crazy…it’s depressing…and it’s disappointing and I always feel like I’m way too emotional of a person to be there…and I hate the weather, I think it’s an ugly city- it’s brown and yellow and it’s just… and here (San Fran.) it’s gray and blue and green and beautiful and I love the Victorian houses and I love the ocean…Ocean Beach is one of my favorite… I HAVE to go to Ocean Beach every time I come to San Francisco , cuz I love going to the little Camera Obscura/ (Muse) Amusement and…”

MK: “You know they're closed now…”

MB: (gasp) “Forever?”

MK: “Yeah, they moved it to Fisherman's Wharf”

MB: “What's there now then?”

MK: “I don't know…It's just empty…I think they closed it in September…”

MB: “Oooh. Last year I took all of these pictures inside of it, I am so glad I did now… I liked the little ones where you'd put the nickel or the dime in and you get to see the little ladies sitting at their little tables…”

MK: “Yeah, I think it's at Pier 23 or something like that now…”

MB: “That's weird… (we laugh)…Oh, I'm glad you told me…”

MK: “It's still nice to go over there though…Land's End is nice, you know…”

Mark's cat, Pink, walks up to explore what is going on…sniffs around at my bag and then peacefully settles in his lap. The perfect suggestion of how most people feel around Mark- you just long to be his cat and crawl up into his protective and calming lap and drift away into Euphoria for the rest of your life… Then we discuss how in the last year or so, he has been thinking about getting a house somewhere, and San Francisco being too expensive, he mentions Portland as a possibility, but states he would always still want to keep an apartment in San Francisco as well.

MK: “But I've never really made a connection with any city in this country like I have San Francisco (I nod in complete full agreement)…but I do want to get a house somewhere where I can go for a couple of months out of the year…”

MB: “Is there any other city you really like?”

MK: “I like New Orleans a lot…”

MB: “Oh, I love New Orleans!”

MK: “I love New Orleans, but I tend to burnout on it after awhile. I've spent a lot of time down there actually and after a couple of weeks, you just sort of run out of things to do. Here, in the bay area, it is just an endless amount of things to discover and things to do. But I definitely like New Orleans and when you are there you can feel the history of it and all that. I like that a lot. I like the food there a lot too.”

Next, I continue on to ask him the typical “is there anyone you'd really like to work with musically?” question. He said he didn't really have anyone in mind, but there are some people he'd really like to meet, especially Neil Young for instance.

MK: “I saw Neil Young in my neighborhood once and I said ‘Hi’ and he nodded and kept walking…(we laugh)…I think to meet Neil Young would be great… and people like that. He's probably right at the top of someone who I admire a lot and have listened to most of my life and I feel like I'm probably influenced by him.”

Speaking of influences, I told him how it was just recently, off of his solo project of all AC/DC covers called "If You Want Blood", that he was reminding me of Leonard Cohen and even a bit of Chet Baker. He said he had only recently heard Chet Baker via a friend and as far as the Leonard Cohen thing, though he did not grow up listening to him, he had heard that comparison long ago in Tennessee, long before the Red House Painters. He said he had even been doing a live show for the radio station KCRW once and played those AC/DC covers a long time ago and the guy at the radio station accused him of ripping off Leonard Cohen songs, but they were actually AC/DC songs and he was just covering them! Then we talk about all of the song covers he has done over his career and why he chose to remake so many songs that you would not really expect him to do.

MK: “When I listen to music, one of the first things that I go to is the lyrics and I think that I just have this instinct, whether its an AC/DC song or whatever it is, I can just automatically hear what it would be like if I did it. I think that's why I cover stuff like AC/DC or a Kiss song, because it's interesting. For me to go ‘Wow, I'm going to cover a Joy Division song’, for me it's like, it's been done. Or even to record a song I really like by Neil Young or something, it's already been done really well. What would I do? I really like to take something that I can make it just the extreme opposite of what it is. And with the AC/DC stuff, all those songs are very sexual and they're misogynist and the one song I did that was called “You Ain't Got A Hold On Me” is totally about blow jobs.”

MB: (Gasp. Laugh)

MK: “It's about this guy who is unhappy with the way this girl is giving him head and it's funny because I sing it with a different melody, it's a different voice, and that's how every thing is. You can take anything and interpret it in a different way and it can come across in a totally different way. So, it's funny. And I like to do that, and give something like that a different meaning.”

MB: “Yeah, I love ‘Shock Me’ and of course ‘I Am A Rock” and you know, the older covers. I've always loved the cover songs that you have chosen and a few times it was songs that I had not heard. I heard your version first. I didn't listen to a lot of Kiss growing up. Maybe I heard a few songs, like ‘Beth’, but I heard ‘Shock Me’ first from you.”

Then we go into a discussion about “Almost Famous” and how he really has no aspirations to be an actor and go through the horrid audition process and all of that. I certainly understand that! He said he enjoyed the experience of the luxuries of working on a movie set, quite different than a tour. He said that there is a really big difference between the two lifestyles and that it's a treat to be able to get paid so well, stay at nice places, eat great food, but he is no actor.

MK: “I don't feel like I have any acting ability, I've never taken acting classes, I don't have any real acting experience of bouncing dialogue back and forth with actors. Everything I did in ‘Almost Famous’ was a line here, a line there...I don't have confidence as an actor. I don't have confidence to go in and improvise and do whatever it is they need me to do, it just sounds painful to me.” (We laugh)

We touch on many more subjects including women, how he has been in love twice, movie stars, Zodiac signs, crushes, childhood, depression, etc…but I'm sure none of you are interested in any of that…are you…

So I finally wrapped it up with my special little quick response word association thing that I like to do (You may remember me doing this when I interviewed the author Clint Catalyst a few issues back…interestingly enough, both had the same response to the word Mother…)

MB: “Happy?”

MK: “Sad”

MB: “Moon?”

MK: “Black”

MB: “Summer?”

MK: “Evening”

MB: “Bush?”

MK: “Girl” (laughs)

MB: “Los Angeles?”

MK: “Sun”

MB: “Silence?”

MK: “Golden”

MB: “Antique Road Show?”

MK: “Me”

MB: “Capricorns?”

MK: “Susan”

MB: “Japan?”

MK: “Women”

MB: “Green?”

MK: “Tree”

MB: “Mother?”

MK: “Love”

MB: “Naked?”

MK: “Nice”

MB: “Frog?”

MK: “Smooth”

MB: “That's it. Now, is there anything that you'd like to tell your fans? Advice? Anything that you wish people knew about you? Anything you want to dispel that is untrue? Something that you want to say to people?”

MK: “Not really. No.” (I bust up laughing. He laughs too.)”

MB: “Cool.”

MK: “No, when I meet people I'm always curious about THEM. What their deal is and what their story is. But, no, there's nothing I feel I need to say or anything. No, I can't think of anything.”

I smile at his thoughtful, sincere, funny, and charming self and the rest is now history…


As you may notice, this interview is not in the typical “No-Fi” style and much of my half of the conversation had to be cut out due to space restrictions and due to the fact that the interview went on for a very long time. I hope you readers found it interesting and informative anyway. Maybe, some day or year I'll publish it much closer in its entirety, but certainly not anytime soon. Thank you very much Mark for this very long and personal interview you gave me. I know you don't care to do interviews very much…I hope this wasn't too painful for you!

Mark's latest project is to be released Nov.4th, 2003. You can check out Sun Kil Moon information and tour dates at the following web address: www.jetsetrecords.com or go directly to http://jetsetrecords.com/bands/sun_kil_moon/bio.asp. There are of course countless other sites involving Mark and his music and side projects, so go get searching and get yourself educated now!

This article is dedicated to Michael Lee Aguilar, who unexpectedly passed away from my life forever in 1994. He spent some serious Red House Painters music appreciation time with me for many of their early years. And memories of him are forever invoked by the esoteric experience of listening alone to that unique sounds of Mister Mark Kozelek.

Mary Bond is a staff writer for No-Fi "Magazine" and runs her own perfume business

E-Mail Mary Bond at the link below.